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Creation vs Evolution.
- You keep believing, We'll keep evolving.
- Me, Myself, and I
- Most Creation vs Evolution pages are from a Christian point of view, so they do not take into account any evidence to the contrary of creation. This page does. We invite anyone with an open mind, and a solid base of scientific knowledge to join in and discuss the issues that surround this all important debate.
As we know, scientists the world over are still researching topics that answer huge questions, like ones that will be debated on this page. So accept that all is not known by scientists, and some questions you may find yourself asking, just cannot be answered! Simple as that.
But still, feel free to debate all topics regarding what you would expect to see on this page. Swearing is good to get your idea's across and to let people know what you are thinking, but not if it's personel or offensive toward someone, no matter what their belief.
We need some more members.
Thanks for coming to this page, and have fun debating.
Athiests challange your beliefs, read this book!!0 Replies 189 weeks
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Here is the argument in brief…again:35 Replies 206 weeks
1. The expansion rate of the universe could not have decreased or increased by one part in one hundred thousand million million. The is only one out of several observations of fine-tuning.
2. Chance, by its very own nature, is incomprehensibly unlikely here.
3. An intelligence, as portrayed in certain other scenarios, is overwhelmingly more likely. This is because by the very nature of an intelligence, an intelligence assures the fine-tuning. An external intelligence, such as the one in a scenario to produce overwhelmingly unlikely sequences of a computer that are specifically required for our benefit, is more likely to produce the specific conditions in which meaningful existence of Biological lifeforms can exist.
"same lsd story, every time: 'young man on acid, tried to fly, jumped out of a window, what a tragedy'. what a dick! if he wanted to fly, why didn't he start from the ground first? you don't see ducks catching elevators to fly south! you mean there's one less moron in the world? how am i gonna sleep through the night? ...no tradegy. the news is supposed to objective, right? THE news? but EVERY drug story is bad? hmmm... well, HOLD IT! i've had some KILLER times on drugs! i'm not promoting it ...but i'm not denying it - let's hear the whole fucking story! wouldn't it be nice to see a positive drug story on the news, to see what it's all about? just once?! wouldn't that be nice? ...1 Reply 207 weeks
'today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all ONE consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there's no such thing as death, life is a dream, and we're the imaginations of ourselves. here's tom with the weather...'
WOW, did you see the news?! something about how we're gods perfect and holy thoughts and we live in his mind, and there's no reason to suffer or lack ...ever. i thought it was kinda newsworthy ...but, then again, i was fucked up at the time."
- agent of evolution, Bill Hicks (sane man)
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My lecturer for my Biological Evolution paper sent out an email with a link to a youtube video in it. I thought it was cute/simple enough for bebo, so I've decided to put it here. I've also added a link to the interactive game, (which is amusing if nothing else).
"This is one persons viewpoint striving to make an argument on rationalism not belief. However, Youtube and the internet are packed with “information” based mostly on belief, so you must be cautious about and skeptical and questioning. You may find videos that appear equally compelling (well made with nice music) “proving” creation as a source of earths diversity. As cdk007 says “think about it”, consider the information being presented don’t just accept it, consider the type of evidence and how it supports or refutes alternative hypotheses whether you are thinking about evolution or any other aspect of the natural world.
Note: This is only part one in a series of videos on evolution, but anyone who doesn't grasp the concept from the first video probably won't have the brain power to follow a link to the next part. Hence you can look for them yourselves.
1 Comment 196 weeks
Compassion and Ethics
Regardless of what religious view you hold to, whatever your philosophical leanings, the basic principle in accepted ethical conduct is to try to be as compassionate as possible to others, as opposed to as cruel as possible.
If you believe in human rights you must, therefore, as a matter of ethical consistency, believe in animal rights.
The burden for the human supremacist (or lets say animal exploitation proponent) is that he wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants to be able to say that it is ethically justifiable to exploit non human animals in ways that would be immoral if done to humans. The problem is--how do you bring forth an argument that shuns racism/sexism etc but condones speciesism?
All the criteria used--"reason," " free will," "a soul," "deity says so," are subject to doubt, not only in how it applies to all humans vs all non-humans, but also in its absolute objective significance. There is no absolutes here (or rather, if there are--they are still subject to questioning -- and how can an absolute be questioned?). If every human possesses some faculty x that other species lack, why then would this "faculty x " make them superior in value--and then free to do what they want to those outside that circle?
It's a purely human value and claim. (i.e. reason. This criteria is subjective. Its worth is a value judgment. It only has discernable value to humans (just as skin color only has value to racists, or a certain interpretation of the Bible only has value to Christian fanatics). The universe itself cannot be shown to "favor" humans over non-humans since we are subject to the elements, diseases, and mortality just as other species are. Where then is this "objective superiority" demonstrated? No where. We say it is so, so it is so.
But a racist or sexist or religious fanatic can make the very same claim--using a criteria that is non objective, non absolute and say it is okay for their perceived group(s) to discriminate against those humans who don't meet the special standard of value.
How can the speciesist say, using ethics, that what he says is so, is superior to what the racist says is so?
The only choice that an animal exploitation proponent has, to preserve some moral integrity, is to allow anyone to do what they want and discriminate against whomever they want (this would allow both animal experiments and human experiments), or to expand the circle of compassion to include those that were left out.
Now--it doesn't mean the line is drawn at animals--you can very well say that it is wrong to exploit trees and other plants...the problem is implementing such a policy. No ethical view--no matter how consistent, can take into account the interests of everyone at all times--especially when you come down to a microscopic level. No one can be perfect, either in compassion or cruelty. BUT the failure to be morally perfect does not then mean one has to fall back to some safe line like species. If one argues for that--then there is no reason why the line cannot be drawn at race, or religion, or family also. So the same problem for the speciesist still applies. He or she is shackled to it.
All you can do as a compassionate person is to try your best according to each situation, following a moral standard that endeavors to be fair and just--allowing you to be as compassionate as possible, as opposed to the alternative.
25 Comments 200 weeks
The concept of progressive revelation in the Bible suggests that God gradually revealed truths as the Hebrews and Christians needed the information, at a rate that the people were capable of absorbing. This produced a number of paradigm shifts in people's beliefs and actions, in which old structures were replaced with new ones.
The concept of Satan evolved throughout the Bible:
- Satan started out as a simple enemy or adversary: This is seen in the older parts of the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament)
- In Samuel and Kings, term "satan" (root Hebrew word "s'tn"), was used to refer to a person who acted as an accuser or enemy. Most translations of the Bible obscure this; they translate Satan as adversary, enemy, opponent, etc.
- In Numbers 22:22, an angel was sent by God as a satan to kill Balaam.
- In 1 Chronicles 21:1, Satan, a supernatural emissary acting on God's behalf, convinced David to hold a census.
- Satan became a type of prosecuting attorney in God's court:
- In Job 1 and 2, Satan is described as one of the members of the court of heaven.
- In Zechariah 3:1-7, Satan also appears as a member of God's council.
- Satan evolved into an all-evil supernatural being with great powers:
- Author G. Messandé 1 and many other religious historians and theologians theorize that from the middle of the 5th century BCE until 53 BCE and later, the Hebrews were on particularly good terms with the Persians. Jews picked up a number of concepts from the Persians' religion: Zoroastrianism. These included the immortality of the soul, Heaven, Hell, - Hebrew theologians began to portray Yahweh as wholly good deity, and attributed evil activity to Satan. History was seen as a battle between the two. Satan became humanity's greatest enemy.
- Satan and his demons were viewed as the cause of mental illness, and as evil figures:
- Satan figures prominently throughout the Gospels. Jesus and his disciples accepted the common belief of the 1st century CE that mental illness and some physical ailments were caused by indwelling demons, led by Satan.
- In Matthew 4:1-3, Luke 4:2, Jesus is tempted by Satan.
- In Matthew 12:24, the Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out demons in the name of "Beelzebub, the prince of the demons."
- In John 8:44, one of the most anti-Judaic passages in the Bible, Jesus is recorded as accusing Jews of being children of the Devil.
- Satan viewed as an extremely powerful force for evil:
- In the writings of Paul and the other apostles, the character and range of activities of Satan and his demons is further developed. The duality is established between an all-good God and an all-evil Satan -- the two most powerful forces in the universe.
- 2 Corinthians 11:12-14: Satan is responsible for false teaching by "false apostles, deceitful workers."
- 2 Corinthians 12:7: Satan has given Paul a "thorn in the flesh" to trouble him.
- 1 Thessalonians 2:17-18: Satan hindered Paul's travels.
- I Timothy 1:19-20: Paul excommunicated Hymenaeus and Alexander and "delivered them unto Satan" for tormenting.
- In Revelation 2:8-9, Satan is portrayed as the power behind the Roman Empire's persecution of the Christians. The author apparently condemns ex-Christians who pretend that they are Jewish in order to avoid the persecution. They are referred to as the "Synagogue of Satan."
- Satan involved in a great battle with God at the end of the world as we know it:
- Revelation 12:9: Satan, viewed as the great dragon, and his fallen angels were cast down to earth.
- Revelation 20:2-3: Satan is bound and sealed into an abyss for 1000 years
- Revelation 20:7-8: Satan is released after 1000 years, deceives the nations, and gathers them together for war. He eventually loses.
Does this progressive revelation mean that the bible IS the word of God and should be taken literally or not?
Why did the Hebrews and Chr
1 Comment 206 weeks
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